Home Ammunition Subsonic Success: Getting Good Function From a .300 Blackout. But! text-align: center;
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Use factory loads and factory brass for reloading. Subsonics are expensive and their performance is marginal compared to supers. JavaScript is disabled. Anything more and I get FTF,FTE. Subsonic bullets generally boast a lighter recoil than their speedy relatives, and have an added weight coming to around 180-220 grains in a standard .300 Blackout load. The armor was going to charge me a lot of money to find the problem until CMMG tech support told me. Subsonics are expensive and their performance is marginal compared to supers. by JasonAAC Fri May 27, 2011 10:14 am, Post Understatement: .300 Blackout (aka AAC) is a popular cartridge among AR-15 fans. by LYNRDSKYNRD Fri May 27, 2011 8:43 am, Post But that's exactly what it was designed for. Final one was with a 5.56 Ruger American Ranch Rifle. ZDJlOTQ0YzNkMDAyZTc2YjY5MWFjY2Q4MzIxOGVlNTAzYTQ1ZWZlMmU0MTQ0 .btn:not(:disabled):not(.disabled) {
If you are going to reload the 6.8 is a much better wildcat supersonic round for the AR. Most factory .300 Blackout subsonic loads are a little more powerful than a routine .45 ACP handgun loading, if we're going on (the admittedly incomplete) calculated energy figures. In fact, SOF Operators have reported shooting terrorists in one room of a house, and not having woken up bad guys sleeping in adjacent rooms. Subsonic rounds hold two advantages over supersonic rounds: quietness and less recoil. - And the Mode 3 screw allows a varied amount to gas to be used in cycling, and the correct amount of gas (and the setting of the AGB) is dependent on correct cycling, using the procedure outlined on page 35? margin-top: 6px;
M2UyMzRiN2ZjNmVlNjc2MzVhZWYxY2YyZTc3NThhMDkyMjY3YjllMDhkNGJm If you want a combat rifle with a hard-hitting round, .300blk has you covered. Supersonic is your traditional rifle round. If this is a primary concern and you think you'll be shooting at targets within 100 yards then subsonic rounds complimented with a suppressor device is worth exploring. HI. Ive written thousands of words about its evils and ways to lower it for other applications. -ms-user-select: none;
Supersonic 300BLK can have nearly three times the kinetic energy as a subsonic 300BLK. Plus, Im a believer in bigger is better respecting impact effectiveness of a bullet. MjgxYmJjNjRlYjU0NTA4Y2QxZmMxNmNkZjVlOTUzM2M2YzUyYWZkM2E1M2U3 I like it especially in the shorter guns, and, around here at least, its looked on as an effective Whitetail cartridge choice. The can boosts the pressure and affects trajectory. For precisely this reason, hunting with subsonic 300 blackout is generally not advised in most scenarios unless youre taking on wild pigs or smaller sized game within short distances. The clear advantages of sub-sonic loads are, of course, sound suppression which can conceal both presence & position. vertical-align: middle;
One reason for its popularity is the supersonic/subsonic option. My research turned up the fact that without the ability of the high velocity of a supersonic .300 to transfer hydrostatic shock you will merely be punching .30 caliber rounds through your target. Now I understand better, what Ill need to do if I want to run subsonic (the upper kit I purchased is set up for supersonic). Such is not the case. 2 were with 300BLK SBR's. It cracks me up, that the 320 pound, crisco leaking computer chair army speaks of subjects that they "read" on the internet. On the downside, this heavy subsonic load will provide little to no expansion, and at handgun velocity (less than 2000fps) will poke holes and crush tissue, likely resulting in a through and through performance. I load 110gr varmint tips at 2600fps and 125gr hornady sst's at 2400fps for hunting, and everything up to 240gr sierra's for plinking and/or subs. - So, the Mode 1 set screw, fully inserted, allows the maximum amount to gas to be used in cycling the weapon? These lowered stats can result in unethical game kills and can lead to animal suffering even if you think you made a clean shot. 300 BLK is known for subsonic performance but one cannot discount the great performance of supersonic offerings as well. My SIG MCX Virtus 9" 300 blackout has about 300-400 rounds through it. They are also more likely to be available than subsonic round stocks. The additional bullet weight keeps the rounds from breaking the sound barrier, and gives them as much energy as possible. If your reloading you shouldn't have to worry about what the manufactures are focusing on with the supersonic. Before i got a 6.8, a 16" .300 unsuppressed was my primary hunting rifle. But if you are spending close to $1 per round for quality factory ammo, I thought it might be a good idea to take a look at some actual decibel meter comparisons between between top brands. But I think I would rather go with the .30 Remington AR cartridge instead now. This will add versatility and a broader range of uses for this great platform. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. If there's no can then this is a dumb argument. Suppressed 5.56 is around 135db. background-color: #ffc107;
My pro shop at the range had no idea what was going wrong, they had me try different ammunition, including supersonic to make it work. The .300blk sub will likely be slightly louder than a 9mm sub, assuming similar barrel lengths. MTYwYjBhYWYzMjliNDdhNjMzYzAyOTM3Njg5MmU1NmYxOGZmYTY2NGU5NjE4 2023 Modulus Arms | 80% Lower Receivers and 80 Lower Jigs. First, compared to the .223 Remington, you're launching a larger caliber and heavier bullet at supersonic speeds. Home defense in its most typical form is about getting yourself and your loved ones off the X. In general, most people prefer a self-defense rifle bullet that expands rapidly and doesnt over-penetrate so that bullets wont travel through multiple walls or similar structures. Product Features PROVEN PERFORMANCE Performance of 300 Blackout Subsonic meets or exceeds FBI Protocol terminal ballistic test requirements. -----END REPORT-----. I had ran the scenario of a suppressed subsonic .300 blackout against a suppressed 45/45+P (still subsonic). So this brings me to my final points/questions. MWUwMTJhYWQ1MzViMzNjMzIzMTFmOTIxMWU0NjA0Nzg5ZTIyMTgwNDUwMjg4 Reason for that is because the 300 BLK uses almost all the same AR parts used for a rifle chambered in .223/5.56mm. Been kicking around the idea adding a 300 Blackout into the mix, yet state laws do not allow for SBRs or suppressors. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. OTMwY2EwMDRiYzUzMDJlY2FlMjFiNGQ5MDY0ZmI0MzdiNWQ2Y2JmYTkzOWFh There's a big assumption here that everyone can actually own supressors. margin-bottom: 10px;
Unless your 300 is just going to be a range toy, the cost savings isnt worth the risk. So if youre set on trying out 300 Blackout yourself, complete a build with your own 80 percent lower receiver today with an easy to use universal
For close range pig-hunting, it's a game changer. Some have higher or lower cost per round for factory or reloads. MWZhMzE4M2MxNmUzYTg2YmQxN2ZjMWFjOWY0ZWFjYThkZTNjZjU0NzJiZGEy In the review on the MCX from ammoland the author says, "We experimented with a variety of 300 Blackout ammunition. YTMyZGRiMDU5NDZiNjA1ZmIwMjgwZTgwMWE0ODkxZGYwMzFiZWRjMTU3In0= If you like wasting money on subsonic ammo put a lighter buffer or Nemo arms reduced power spring. I dont know if it will have the short comings of flame cutting as listed above. I like the x39 because I can blast cheap steel cased ammo and not have to scrounge for brass. The additional bullet weight keeps the rounds from breaking the sound barrier, and gives them as much energy as possible. The difference between subsonic rounds and supersonic rounds, as implied by their etymology, remain in their ability to break the sound barrier determined by how fast the projectile travels. Most factory .300 Blackout subsonic loads are a little more powerful than a routine .45 ACP handgun loading, if we're going on (the admittedly incomplete) calculated energy figures. The loudest factors from using suppressed subsonic ammunition comes from the sound of the bullet impact and the bolt carrier group cycling back and forth (when using AR platforms). A heavier grain, typically around 180-220 grains, introduces more weight to the projectile, preventing the bullet from exceeding speeds that would break the sound barrier like a supersonic round normally would. 300 Blackout 9" Noveske Barrel (pistol length gas system) STAG Upper and STAG Lower ? There is Barnes RRLP in 300 BLK, though it may end up as LE/Mil only. Brad Criner, Senior Director Sig Sauer Ammunition. _hester_ 6 yr. ago Yeah, but have there been measurements taken without a suppressor? Re: Why run subsonics without a suppressor. And a small percentage of you claimed that using a 300BLK AR15 in a life or death situation was nothing more than a mall ninjas wet dream. How to Assemble and Use the GST-9 Infinity Jig. ODE1ZDM1NjM4Zjc1Yzg1OGZlODViYzdmMGM1Y2RkZWI1NDVhODQxZjI4YmRl by 2bad4u2 Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:17 pm, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. MGQ3NDgzZjU3MzUxOGM3ZmI4ZGY1NWNkMjkwNDhjZTZkZTU2YjI4MDk3YjU3 I keep seeing guys new to the 300 BLK on other forums asking about how to open gas ports to reliably run subs without a suppressor and I just don't get it. The 16" bbl Blackouts do give more velocity for hunting than the short ones do. color: #212529;
I've been tying to keep an eye on 300BLK supersonic development, for me what comes out of supersonic in the next months will tip the scales on whether I go 308Win or 300BLK on my next purchase. However, suppressors can't get rid of the sonic boom left in a supersonic bullets wake. Get an AAC barrel (pistol gas) and run M4 style BCG, buffer and spring and you are GTG with super or subs. This list is our best 300 Blackout Subsonic ammo, you can check out all subsonic 300 Blackout ammo here. I think carbine length systems and 16 barrels are part of the problem with .300 blk. This caliber has used up all the powder at about 9 of barrel, so it really affects carbine length systems imo. You are supposed to shoot super Sonic on the lower setting and use the higher one for shooting subsonic without a suppressor. Reason for that is because the 300 BLK uses almost all the same AR parts used for a rifle chambered in .223/5.56mm. I have the SA Victor .308 rifle with the adjustable gas block. For anything larger, or at distance, we would recommend going supersonic. 300blk subs are POINTLESS to run without a can, theyre still loud, less effective and unreliable, with a can yes they are super quiet and badass. That is what AAC designed the 300 blk to do and they know how to do it. OWEyN2JmMTE0ZGM2MzkxYjdhZDc1N2EzYzNhOGQzY2I4NDNkNTJkYjI1MDcy Speed equals energy, so (typically), the faster a bullet can travel, the better. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt! 300 Blackout subsonic is one of the quietest rounds to suppress, particularly when fired through a closed breech firearm like a bolt action or single shot rifle. For the love of goodness gentleman, I wish I didnt have to make this post but Ive seen about 10 on this subject in the past week. The 300BLK can run both super and subsonic ammo with a change of a magazine. It cured the problem with supersonics, so I quit while I was ahead and only shoot those. I also discovered that some commercial .300 blackout pistols (like the CMMG Banshee 200) will not even cycle subsonic ammunition reliably without a suppressor attached. There are a couple other AR conversions that work better at being supersonic only. Running subsonic through my purpose-build supersonic blackout required changing a different buffer and a shortened spring and it runs, but its sluggish. Fact of the matter, it is AK ballistics in the reliable AR platform. Running subsonics out of a 16" gun and suppressed is almost hollywood quiet. As everyone does know, it takes most of a year to get the ATF tax stamp approval for a suppressor, which means youre stuck with a pistol that you cant use, without damaging it, for a long time. by Tom12.7 Fri May 27, 2011 7:58 am, Post 6.5 or 6.8 either one beats the 300. A little edgy. A heavier buffer and spring, or an adjustable gas block, can provide the cushion the supersonic needs to avoid over-function.. Our Price: As others have pointed out, if you're going to take the longer barrel and not suppress it (or shoot supers suppressed) then there are other calibers that work well in the AR15 platform and give better performance. But all I can find are subs - please post up the ammo you have and most people with a suppressor will probably trade you. text-decoration: none !important;
Post It is still fun to shoot, even though i now have an 8.5" sbr suppresssed. Subsonic Blackout has a radically milder blast and report than 5.56 or supersonic Blackout. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Due to the higher velocity, you will encounter much louder report regardless of a suppressor, due to the supersonic crack of the bullet. As supersonic ammo means using a lighter-weight grain (typically less than 180 grain), theyre no doubt the less expensive choice of rounds to train and plink with. I usually end up cutting 3-4 coils from the spring to add an edge of reliability to a subsonic. Subsonics cycle with a suppressor almost universally with all barrel makes. 300 Blackout Subsonic Subsonic rounds hold one key advantage, they run really quiet when suppressed. font-size: 1rem;
If not, and you need to hit targets at distances past 3-400 yards then opting to shoot 5.56 NATO instead will save yourself some money. To make the latter work, the . The idea that you can have a single setup of buffer mass, gas port size and gas system length that will handle 28kpsi unsuppressed subsonic loads and suppressed 55kpsi supersonic loads equally well is ludicrous on its face. For those 'go loud' engagements you could opt for supersonic rounds to take the ballistic advantage of full power rounds. user-select: none;
300BLK comes in two flavors: supersonic and subsonic. -webkit-user-select: none;
I agree, but not for some reasons commonly given. I have a feeling I know how most of them will answer, but Ive been wrong a few times in the past. Pandemic pricing is not over yet so if you are already an AR-15 owner, it's won't take much more for you to be able to start shooting 300 BLK. I've only shot a couple through my 300's just to make sure they work and have been ratholing the rest as my wait should be over next month and I can break in the new can very well. Subsonic is also preferred where the hunter wants to limit the maximum range of projectiles. He's 11 and the subsonic unsuppressed functioned flawlessly and the recoil, even unsuppressed was negligible on my 16" AAC upper. by offsidewing Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:34 pm, Post I dont think thats really a factor. Performance of 300 Blackout Subsonic meets or exceeds FBI Protocol terminal ballistic test requirements. With high-quality cartridge cases and primers, Subsonic Ammunition offers the performance and accuracy shooters have come to expect from Hornady. Because of the lower pressures at the muzzle, and the lack of a supersonic report, shooting "subs" is completely hearing safe and comfortable for the operator and those around them. As far as reliability and changing the system from sub to supersonic on a pistols length ar pistol, I have had luck using the superlative arms non restrictive bleed off style gas block. The pistol-length-port location requires the least amount of post-build tuning to get 100-percent reliability. I see you have some rounds made to expand in this article. Thought about getting a 10.5 barrel to see if it corrects the cycling issue. Shooting quickly and quietly is not always as important as shooting flat with the appropriate ballistic energy to put down your target effectively. [emailprotected], Reduced risk of over penetration from a pass through projectile. I have 2 16's, bolt and one AR. We utilize state of the art 5-axis CNC machines to mill all our .308 and AR-15 80 percent lower receivers to incredibly precise tolerances using premium billet aluminum. 1. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. I have an SBR as well in 300BLK which is more fun but when traveling out of state it's easier to just take my 16". I sent an email request to SA with a single question that was never responded to. 308 caliber bullets have the greatest range of options of any caliber. 300 blk shines brightest when its suppressed right? Maybe a greater margin of error for nicking a vital organ as a result of larger bullet expansion. There are so many custom bullets and loads being developed. And, time is also ticking away with respect to the flaming consumption of the propellant. I have found that the best overall approach to subsonic function is to shorten gas system length. You don't have an "issue" with your 300blk if it won't run subsonic ammo UNSUPPRESSED! .300 Blackout is an intermediate caliber that performs with a better ballistic capability than 5.56x45mm while retaining the same round capacity using a standard M4 magazine. Besides several Blackouts I shoot with short bbls and suppressed, I also have some 16" rifles. A 12-gauge slug over-penetrates.. There's no purpose in running subs uncanned. OGJhNzU0ZDAyNmMyMDExZWRhOTJmMGM4NDllNjUwODgxZmE1NDljYTRjOGYx YjYzYTFjNjg3ODIxNzc4MTIwMDYxZmFlYjc5YjAzZjQzODIxYTUzNTYwZDlj Given your situation, a "pistol" setup may be in order. So while many believe .45 ACP to be the mighty fist of God, we know today that pretty much ALL handgun rounds are pretty terrible at stopping threats. The value of the 300 Blackout boils down to two factors. Forget about cut brass. Subsonic rounds hold one key advantage, they run really quiet when suppressed. Fun as hell and easy to tote. Until I started reading forums, I was unaware that .300BLK is expected to not cycle in a 9" unsuppressed rig, so I wanted to make it work properly with the only available ammo. Please be respectful of others. Is 300BLK worth it in supersonic unsuppressed ONLY appl.? Having said that, that doesn't necessarily mean that a shooter can't enjoy the benefits of reduced muzzel signature just because they can't or won't own a supressor. Based on my work it's very tricky to get subsonics to cycle a standard-length XCR-L action, even . }
But while energy transfer is very important it does not tell the entire story. Sub Sonic Ammo out of an Unsuppressed 300 Blackout Young and Tactical 3.49K subscribers 213 25K views 3 years ago In this video Trent shoots his 300 blackout to see if it can run sub. An M1A would be cool too have, but going custom on my first buy. Pretty much, its for those who want a bigger bullet in an AR-15 with a minimum of technical distractions (some call them problems). The giggle factor of subs, suppressed on a SBR is way up there. Ballistically I agree that the 300BLK doesn't outperform much of anything when it comes to 16" and unsuppressed, but it kills deer out to at least 200 yards just fine, and that's what I want. 7.62x39 has more power and cheaper ammo than 300blk. .300 Blackout subsonic is not ideal for medium to long range hunting, as the velocity and kinesthetic shock is greatly lowered from the supersonic. Btw: Supersonic ammo is also a really bad idea because of the VERY loud report and large muzzle flash. I don't think the 300blk is the best supersonic only round. Given equal penetration a larger bullet will damage more tissue and cause more bleeding. ODE2NzBiY2U5OTUxNjZhZTJhYmFkOTZlNzc1MDdhMDdmNmRiMTEzZDRmZWI0 Even a thin-jacketed traditional match bullet wont expand at subsonic velocities, it may tumble, but may act more like an FMJ until it becomes unstable. SwedishMoose 3 mo. On the other end of the spectrum, use of a supersonic load like the Federal 120g Trophy Copper at 2100fps, will result in projectile expansion to approximately 1.5x the diameter of the bullet, and greater terminal effect. I enjoy them just as much as the short ones. Done like that, the relatively tiny amount of fast-burning propellant behind that honking .30-caliber bullet gets put to work effectively because the pressure at the gas port is higher. Most subsonic blackout ammo uses a bullet in the 200-grain range, and, of course, .308 diameter. We will promptly replace or repair any product that we determine to be defective. Essentially, all you'd need is an upper receiver with a 300 blackout barrel and you'd be good to go since the 300 blackout magazine is the exact same as normal STANAG/NATO magazines. "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because. I have multiple 16 inch barrels in 300BLK and they work perfect. These advantages are powerful features of subsonic rounds and are made the most effective when applied with a suppressor device. I let my son shoot my 300BLK AR, subsonic unsuppressed, when I forgot to pack his .22 on one of our trips to the range. 300 Blackout Suppressed With Subsonic Ammo - YouTube 0:00 / 1:22 300 Blackout Suppressed With Subsonic Ammo Cory Meals 364 subscribers Subscribe 43K views 5 years ago 300 Blackout Suppressed. The 300BLK is a very capable rifle in the 16 inch configuration and can take any 4 or 2 legged animal that either the 7.62X39 or the 6.8 can in normal shooting ranges of up to 300 yards. One reason I could think of is for using your AR on an indoor range that is limited to pistol calibers. Due to NFA laws in my home state, two different guns were used for this test. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. This gun has shot subsonic and supersonic suppressed and unsuppressed flawlessly through 2500 rds min. The 300 AAC BLK is very similar to the Winchester 30-30 in velocity and energy for equally sized bullets. NjI2MDFhZjNkMzY1NTA2MTQxNDNlYjJmMDNhNTQwOWM1ODc5MGRhZWY4Njlk If have two, 6.8s and you are thinking of a 300 blk.i say do it. Depending on the load, some 300 blackout subsonic rounds are quiet enough to comfortably use without ear protection. I dont like running a valve on anything but a rifle-length system. if running nothing special and you just want a 30 bore get a PSA 7.62 x 39 upper kit. The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt! This goes for animals also. Run a pistol-length location gas port (four inches ahead of the chamber area) with a carbine-length (16-inch) barrel. 300 BLK has been considered a rather expensive round even before the logistical infrastructure was swamped and manufacturing capabilities were struck by limited staff and astronomical demand. When I first built a .300, I couldnt get it to run reliably with bolt-over base failures, double feeds, etc. by este Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:16 pm, Post Same with the 16" 7.62x39 upper I got from PSA. Heavy for caliber bullets are often used to off-set lack of velocity and still provide great short to medium range performance. We stand behind all our products and were here to support you. Differences Between Supersonic and Subsonic. The price of subsonic 300 BLK now averages $1.15 - $2.85 per round (Consider this cost if you plan on using subsonic 300 BLK to shoot follow up shots rapidly on target). it ALMOST made sense a year or more ago when all you could find was factory subsonic ammo Graphic design and branding: https://www.facebook.com/VisualGravy. The XTP bullet in Subsonic Handgun has built a world-class reputation for accuracy and stopping power. NDNkYTI4NTI2ODg2OGViYTk3ZjNlZTZlOGRjMzQ0NjdiN2E1Mzg1YzlkZjUx Now I want a 16". Long grooves in its gilding metal jacket combine with the bullets flat profile and the patented Flex Tip insert within its hollowpoint cavity to help it expand reliably at low velocities. Lucky or good Im not really sure which, but Ill take it. Theres a time and place for both technologies and you should practice/zero with both types. It doesn't mean it isn't perfectly effective, just that you're not taking advantages of what makes it special. I still can't find supers most of the time. I was shooting subsonics, while my suppressor sits in the gun store safe waiting for some schmuck to rubber stamp a form, because they're all that I could find. First, Im always willing to risk boring knowledgeable readers with really basic information because its important to start at the start. Y2ZiMWUwMjljYjc2NjMyZDRjOTA0ZTkxMzk2MGEzMWVmMjFmYWVlOTdjZjFm Second, you have the. ATI Introduces the Omni Hybrid Maxx Rifle - The Shooter's Log, .300 AAC Blackout: Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick - The Shooter's Log, Washington Takes Oppression of Gun Owners to New Lows, Finding a Firearm: My Wifes First Pistol, Throwback Thursday: 5 Long-Slide Pistols I Cant Live Without. OUR GST-9 IS UNAFFECTED BY THE LATEST 12/28 ATF CLARIFICATION LETTER & SHIPS IN 3 DAYS! You seem to have found a sweet setup in this article that does not have any feed issues.
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